Ten Bucks a Litre…..

29 07 2013
ABC TV (Australia) has a program this coming Thursday 1 August on PEAK OIL (and energy in general from the shorts I have seen…) that I think we should all watch.  I’ll post something about the show once it’s been aired, and I’d love to hear what you all thought of it……..

Thursday, 1 Aug 8:30pm

Dick Smith, self proclaimed single biggest individual fuel user in Australia, goes in search of the energy options that will decide Australia’s future.

Some of our most serious global worries revolve around energy – controlling it, paying for it, and the consequences of burning it. As both one of the world’s biggest per capita users and exporters of fossil fuels, Australia is sure to be deeply affected by the radical changes coming down the energy pipeline. Self-confessed fuel junkie Dick Smith explores Australia’s options as we enter the age of energy disruption.

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19 responses

29 07 2013
Graham

Who best to explain addiction than an addict himself?

29 07 2013
mikestasse

I’m a firm believer of the dictum that to have a chance of overcoming any addiction, you first need to admit you have one…….

29 07 2013
len gardener

all I can say is “bring it on” so all the hype worshippers will get what they are saying is going to be worse than anarchy, bring on the ghost aeroplane.

whilst ever we remain divided running here then their like chicken little’s missing their heads they have us over a barrel.

and dicky smiths millions won’t help him much at all.

8.30 a bit later for us but we may take a peek, might glimpse our tipsy ambassador again.

take care

len

29 07 2013
Mad Max

What a shocking thing to say bring it on. It will so bad to live for alot of people a large no of aussie would have know any Idea about growing there own food. we also live more then walking distance from shops is if anything in in the shops.. they be living with no power becouse it become to exspencive.

29 07 2013
len gardener

yes it sill be so bad IF it happens, think about living in the suburbs with hungry mobs roaming the streets.

len

1 08 2013
Lucio

I did a rough calculation, based on the petawatts of energy the world currently consumes, if we decided to use only plant matter, we would have to harvest half of everything that grows. Please do the simple calculation for yourself, find out how much energy is in wood, how much organic matter the earth produces, assume 50% efficiency of energy production and do a simple energy balance, all the information is available on the internet. This calculation made me realise how much power oil provides to humanity. We are harvesting the sun already with solar panels and solar power stations, the people must demand, and support more investment into clean efficient technology, the rise of solar must be exponential to catch up with future demand.

2 08 2013
lemmiwinks

By god (your choice, I’m not picky) that show was awful! So many massive assumptions, omissions and just plain nonsense. I was dreading the electric car (*cringe*!) Pretty disappointing after his reasonable effort with the population thing.

Initially I thought that he was making a point, or at least a bad joke, by trotting out the Cessna, helicopter, microlight and private jet(!) for personal transport but sadly the irony appeared to be completely lost on old Dicky.

Where to begin. Nuclear is a big one, he focused only on accidents and that’s certainly a biggie (ask the thousands who can never go home in Japan), but the elephant in the nuclear power station is the spent fuel rods. “We’ll store them” cry the nuclear cheerleaders. To what end, I reply. They’re just as deadly hundreds of years from now.

Biofuels = net energy loser. Biocrude is almost certainly in the same basket. So much energy in to convert it to crude which must then be refined (more energy!) Direct to liquid hydrocarbons it might be ok but still doubtful.

At least he was pretty right about renewables, although electric cars saving the world was the usual cringeworthy nonsense (believe me, I used to be an electric car lover but if you do the maths it’s just not going to happen). Concentrated solar isn’t particularly inspiring considering the footprint vs any other power station, I thought solar trough was more promising but (Australian innovation) it went overseas and I don’t know what became of it.

Everything is, understandably, predicated towards keeping business as usual rolling along. I’m not in the camp that believes that BAU *can* be sustained, I think the only question is how much longer it *will* run for before something breaks. I’m certain that we (the global “we”) will continue BAU until we can’t.

2 08 2013
Rapideffect

It wasn’t a great doco, but I think what Dick’s objective was was to make people think about our future energy needs. Sure he offered the same old (non) solutions, nuclear/biofuels/renewables but to tell it like it really is wouldn’t get anyone talking about future energy needs just abusing him about being a doomer.
As Mike said “I’m a firm believer of the dictum that to have a chance of overcoming any addiction, you first need to admit you have one…….”

The solution to civilizations problem is population reduction. I think population is the one issue that is always overlooked. It’s as simple as more people equals more energy/water/resource consumption. Since humans will not achieve reduction of our population in time then collapse will happen.

As will all animals humans will multiply in times of good and collapse in times of bad.

2 08 2013
len gardener

still on that path rapideffect?

genocidal! the people are already here and more coming what is your answer.

the talk of addiction needing affordable, homes to live in, affordable power, food, fuel etc.,. is hardly an addiction, corporate and gov’ greed is addicted to the greed they harvest, not the poor struggling through each day.

where are the answers, no good denying nuclear the garden gnome already has us on that path, and nuclear with its dangerous by-product far more dangerous that a bit of smoke, and over thousands of years not hundreds of years. we have to go nuclear as the US says so they will keep helping us with funding of this new state of the union.

there is no moral and humanitarian ethics at play that is what is needed to keep a society together and go against the doomsayers

len

3 08 2013
Rapideffect

Reducing the birth rate and giving women an education and access to birth control will go a long way in helping to reduce the population.

Len, how is moral and humanitarian ethics going to keep society together?
Humans have far exceeded the carrying capacity of the earth, we are so vast in numbers that we cannot be sustained. So we either reduce our population or nature will do it for us.

3 08 2013
len gardener

rapid,

a united society will give far better results, the only way people can unite is under a common banner give control back to the common man, corporate greed worshippers are cruelling the planet.

it is only your assumption that is is the population that has reduced the earths capacity, sad to say one day you may see it was that corporate greed and false science.

and while you may change birth levels by increasing education and providing meaningful employment, it will take 60 years or more before here will be the merest result. or do you have some other in their faces plan?

len

3 08 2013
mikestasse

total nonsense as usual

4 08 2013
len gardener

only in the minds of people like your self mike,

so what is the here and now fix?

many of your group are saying the population is too large, was it not you that said 7billion people need what I forget? 70 billion captive animals for food or was that 70 million? you then said reduce the population to 1 billion than those captive need reduce to 10 bill or 10 mill same equation but. no real gain, then very many of the worlds overpopulated poor get none of that food that food is only for westerners who can afford it.

most of the over populated desperately poor are transient caused by religious civil wars and despotic intolerances.

so if not a general genocide of 90% of the population to appease the corporate wealthy, does some one stand in the birthing wards with iced buckets of water.

come on please mike give us the solution.

there is no grasp here of what will happen when fuel get so expensive only the wealthy can afford, how do we feed the people in our towns and suburbs.

len

4 08 2013
mikestasse

There is no solution Len……. we all die. within 12 years, lak of food (and probably disease) will kick off the population collapse that the Cub of Rome predicted over forty years ago……

4 08 2013
Lucio

good comments by all, the population and nuclear issues need to be discussed and understood.
w.r.t population, please do the maths, on wikipedia it says that the worlds population will double every 50 years at the present rate of growth, imagine over 1000 years how big the population could get?! Something will slow the growth, what will slow the growth? no one can be sure. What we can say is that the present conditions will not continue, something will happen, all we can do is hope that there won’t be a sudden event causing loads of suffering.
Energy:
If our civilasation is to continue for another 2000 years, then we got to work out how to live without the finite resources of oil, gas or coal. Best time to do it is now, when we can afford to experiment a bit. Conventional nuclear is a dead end as there is not enough fuel in the ground. Nuclear Fusion was not even mentioned in Dick’s show. The agricultures dependence on oil wasn’t even mentioned in Dick’s show. Pretty obvious we can’t depend on harvesting biological sources for energy, the amount of suitable land is limited. No matter what happens: the ‘consumer’ mentality of our modern world must be challenged. The more you own, the more owns you!

4 08 2013
len gardener

good one lucio,

now where do we start?

many here just have head in bucket of sand with posterior sticking skyward, you know what happens then hey chuckle.

here is the tally:

1..the planet is going to whatever with the weight of people on it(no turn around answers outside of genocidia)
2..we are going to simply run out of fuel, because some egg head says we are, can’t really imagine the oil industry and car makers wanting that hey, I mean what would the golden hand shake CEO do for a living?
3..we are going to starve this one is very likely even if fuel does not stop flowing, as we get gouged so do truckies, so yes almost empty shop shelves, and get mugged on your way home if you have eh money that, CO2 industry is an albatross around our necks.
4..those who have a roof over their heads with no food in it won’t have power as the do gooders demand a revenge, oh the middle yuppy classes will be down here with us screaming the loudest(like a commenter said where I got those song lyrics, “come back to God before it is too late”
5.. no police protection to stop you being clubbed to death.

ok mike is that about it? I am in a few forums who have these chats, I really don’t know how these doomsayers wake up and get out of bed each wonderful morning.

best not to worship the doctrine of men.

len

4 08 2013
mikestasse

Len…… it is YOU who has head in sand.

And religion IS the doctrine of men.

And I wish you’d stop posting all this boring crap……. like Glenn said, what on Earth attracts you to this site?

4 08 2013
len gardener

mike your lack of tolerance is showing

nup my bum safe no head locked into false doctrine, and yes you are right all religion which includes, climate science, evolution anything that attracts a following is by the doctrine of man, that is why they preach so much doom, with no way out.

so with that no hope for mankind stuff you really mean is boring crap, what is the answer? simply pull the plug, like I said in an earlier post and never seen again mad max called me shocking, again mike “bring it on” lets cut to the chase.

so what you ascribe to here is religion as well. religion based on chicken little doctrine.

I responded to glenn

len

5 08 2013
mikestasse

Dead right Len…….. I don’t suffer fools gladly.

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